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I really, really need a hot tub at this house I just bought. But I really, really don't know enough to even ask the right questions. I need advice on where in the yard to put the tub, what sort to get, how big, what needs to be done to prep the space -- concrete pad, gravel, what? -- can I wire it myself or need an electrician. I just know there are more questions I should be asking. Or is there somewhere locally I could/should go to for the answers? Please help?
If my guru lived near Mtn View, CA and could look at the yard, it would be great.
TIA for any help or advice.
If my guru lived near Mtn View, CA and could look at the yard, it would be great.
TIA for any help or advice.
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SF Bay Area
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Tue, February 13, 2007 - 6:33 PMHI Rose,
I just got a hot tub in December, and had to upgrade my electrical service coming into my house from 125 amps to 200 Amps. What a pain that was! I had to get a county permit, paid an electrician friend to do the work, and because of the way the box was installed before, I had to do some improvements around the box to get signed off on the permit. (a new step and tempered glass for a nearby window)
So, if you get a 220v hot tub, you will need an electrician to wire it. Make sure they check to see if you're current service
will handle the additional load (50amps).
I ended up making a gravel pad, because it was the cheapest and easiest way to make a flat stable surface in my yard.. I sprung for the insulated pad from the dealer (about $500, but it prevents heat loss on the ground), and put that on the gravel pad.
You probably want to put the tub as close to your house or deck as you can... On those cold nights, you don't want to have to walk too far to get to the hot water! :-) I put my right up against my deck -
people.tribe.net/dreemer/p...3c50ac1937
You also want to take into account privacy when choosing your spot.
It will cost more than you think, but it REALLY IS WORTH IT!!!
I knew nothing about this before I got it, so doing some research will prevent surprises.
Good luck!
Chris
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Tue, February 13, 2007 - 9:43 PMThank you Chris. Those are exactly the things I need to know. The electric at this house is verrrrry old -- most of the outlets inside are the old two prong kind with no ground. The breaker box is maxed out and each circuit is doubled. I was pretty sure I'd need a "real" electrician so that is probably first on my list. From what I've read, 220v is much the better way to go, right?
The location in my yard for the tub is a good one, close to the house, for running in and out in cold weather. Or rain. Can you hot tub in the rain? Seems like it'd be fun. I digress. May I mail you with more questions as they come up?
~Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 4:57 AMYou can hot tub in the rain if there's no LIGHTNING.
Be really sure about that.
TT -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 6:47 AMriiiight. I *will* remember that Tom. Thanks :-) I don't think about lightning so much these days. We get far fewer electric storms out here on the left coast than the rest of the country. Mostly the rain is "soft" rain. Which seems like it might be nice in the hot tub, for a little while anyway.
~Rose
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 9:49 AMHottubbing in the cold weather, rain, or snow is wonderful!
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 11:16 AMHot tubbing in the rain is REALLY fun! Monday, it was really pouring here
and I was in a meeting, looking out the window wishing I was in my tub!
Luckily we don't have thunderstorms here much, so it's safe.
I think 220v is better, but I don't know. My tub is kinda big, 8x8, so I don't think
I had much of a choice.
Sure, you can mail me with any questions.... :-)
Peace,
Chris -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, February 24, 2007 - 4:13 PM220V is the only way to go! I have a 110 and it's only warm for a short time, especially when it's cold out. A 220 wont have that problem. I'm hoping to convert mine to 220 as soon as possible. -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, February 24, 2007 - 5:21 PM220v is what most people have recommended just for that reason. Now I need to find an electrician because this old house has really crap electrical ... It seems like the domino theory is getting in the way of my hot tubbing, sigh. What are your thoughts about the round vs square style? And are all those funky looking lounge seats all that great? Am I a purist, or just old-fashioned, if I want a round one with a bench all around instead of a "captain's chair"?
~Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, February 24, 2007 - 6:42 PMI am partical toward the round tubs. Mine is round, and I love it. It increases the intimacy when the tub is full, and it has an old fashion look to it.
As for the electrician, you'll definately need a dedicated circuit for the hottub. Hopefully your panel has room for a 220 circuit. Otherwise you'll have to upgrade your panel and that could be pretty expensive.
I would offer to help out but I couldn't tell from your profile where you live. Do you live anywhere near Fresno, CA? -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, February 24, 2007 - 7:19 PMMountain View, CA. Not really that near. But if you are an electrician, I'll offer you meals and my guest room :-) If you are *not* an electrician you'll have to wait until the hot tub is installed for your invitation.
Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, February 24, 2007 - 8:53 PMI'm not an electrician. I am a HVAC/Refrigeration repair technician. I do all of my own electrical. I attended an electrical program because most of what I do at work is electrical.
I also do real estate and massage therapy, btw, lol.
Anyways, I'll be glad to soak with you when you get it installed. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.
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Unsu...
Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 5:20 PMhi Rose,
Just Thought i would throw this out there. we had a neighbor donate a nice 8' tub to us and we were able to use our electric dryer plug and got a deal on a gas dryers (scratch & dent @ lowes's. it has worked out well for us. just a thought
paul -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 6:12 PMThat is a good option, if your house has a circuit for an electric dryer, it'll be a 220v dedicated circuit. The only challenge will be whethre or not it's in reach of the cord on the tub, no extension cords allowed. They'll burn your house down! -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 6:26 PMEEK! No burning down the house, no no no! With some minor changes in plans the tub *could* go further down where the dryer is. I'm getting a good list of things to check, think about and do. Thanks to all :-)
Rose
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Thu, March 1, 2007 - 1:50 PM>That is a good option, if your house has a circuit for an electric dryer, it'll be a 220v dedicated circuit.
>The only challenge will be whethre or not it's in reach of the cord on the tub, no extension cords allowed. T
>hey'll burn your house down!
Also, you have to take into account the AMPs available to that plug. I had a 50 amp 220v circuit put into my box
in the house, but the total amperage wasn't enough to handle that, so I kept blowing the circut in
the main box outside. It was always really hot and I had to wait 15 minutes to reset it. That's
when I had to upgrade the main box to 200amps, because if the curcuit didn't pop, the next
step was a fire!
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 6:24 PMThanks Paul. That's a possible option. The existing electric dryer is pretty old, maybe I could persuade it to retire:-) On the other hand the state of the electricity in the whole house is pretty if-y so I think I'll try to fine an electrician to at least check it all out.
~Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 8:32 PMConsider a gas tub heater as well- especially if your electrical service is meager and your wiring is oldfashioned and inadequate. That said upgrading the house service to a modern panel can't be a bad thing anyway. Gas pool/tub heaters are really efficient and can be VERY fast compared to some wattages of electric ones. I think they're cheaper to operate, too -Im not up on the gas rates but that's sometimes the case. -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 8:38 PMHi girl mark,
Do you know how to convert an electric heater to gas? I would love to do that for mine.
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 8:40 PMInteresting thought. Do you mean hooked up to the gas mains? or a propane tank? or ??
Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 8:42 PMI would like natural gas, propane is real expensive. -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Wed, February 28, 2007 - 9:29 PMUsing a gas-fired heater instead of an electric one is what I mean. They look like a small version of a gas-fired pool heater. You run water through it with the hot tub pumps to heat it up.
Ive done the conversion before but not often enough to give you more info- basically, you take out the heater unit and run the plumbing over to a gas heater instead. I"m not familiar enough with different tub designs to know how all the parts (heater, temperature control interface that the user sets, jet pump, and/or trickle pump) usually talk to each other but I know that you can get it to work even if it's designed around the electric unit initially.
Mark
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Thu, March 1, 2007 - 9:43 AMThanks alol for the tip. I'm thinking about converting mine to gas. I know I can do it myself. -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Thu, March 1, 2007 - 10:09 AMBy the way, if anyone's planning on paying a contractor to do this sort of thing (and associated electrical panel upgrades, etc), I can point you to one who I worked with- this guy in San Rafael:
people.tribe.net/9bee835a-...38b13a203e also works in several other counties besides Marin).
He does charge normal professional rates, though, but he's good.
Mark -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sun, March 4, 2007 - 10:42 AMhere's a thought.. how about just hook up a 110w with a GFI plug? do a google search for: "hot springs spa" i'm on my 2nd one.. since 1989. under $20. electric. per month and portable.. and rain proof.. although id put some wind, rain and leaves protection.. lids do wear faster in outdoor areas. i'm just north of eureka.. on 101. wana come just sit in mine? you'll get the idea of how to hook it up.. take some pics of my hook up, etc.. good luck regardless!
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, November 3, 2007 - 5:50 PMHow's your new tub sweetie? -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, November 3, 2007 - 6:38 PMBrilliant! If it weren't for school (and some nosy neighbors) I'd never get out of it and would turn into a horrid wrinkled prune!! Thanks for asking :-)
~Rose -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sat, November 3, 2007 - 6:48 PMI'm really glad to hear it's working well for you. Did you go with a 220v tub? -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Sun, November 4, 2007 - 8:13 AMYes, 220v; one 4 HP pump, 24 jets. It is a small (4-5 person) *round* tub -- not one of those square or rectangular spa things with 'chairs' like the flight deck of the Starship Enterprise. Nice and old fashioned looking. My electrician did run into one small issue with it -- maybe its just the model I got, but you need at least a 40 amp circuit, *and* a GFI, *and* 4 wires ( + - ground and neutral). He had thought the neutral was optional and ended up spending time pulling a 4th wire through conduit later :-( I've got the ozone thing and use bromine instead of chlorine.
Its simply lovely! -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Mon, November 5, 2007 - 7:25 PMGlad to hear everything worked out well.
Your tub definately needs that common (neutral - I hate calling it a neutral because it's not, it'll shock the shit out of you just like a hot will. A better name for it is the common becuase it's shared by or common to all of the ungrounded conductors [hot wires]). because there are two circuts in your hottub. A 220v circut which handles heating and moving water around, and a 120v circuit which operates the digital display and any lighting inside the tub.
All 120v circuits use a common or "grounded conductor" to complete the circut and return the electrical current to it's source. A 220v circuit doesn't need a grounded conductor or "common" or "neutral" because it's made up of two 120v legs that are "out of phase" with each other, and each of them alternate acting as a hot and as a neutral conductor.
It's interesting he pulled wire through conduit. I think I probably would have used a roll of romex #6 4-wire. Romex is cable used in residential applications and doesn't require conduit (you never pull romex through conduit). #6 is good for 50 amps, and the 4-wire would have given me enough conductors for your 120v circuit as well. He may have needed to use conduit though if the plug for your tub is far from your house, preventing him from installing the plug on a wall or something, or if your tub is directly wired (without a 220v cord and plug).
I've never used ozone (my tub is quite a bit older than yours) but I also use bromine and I totally prefer that to cholorine. I'll never use chlorine in a tub again after using bromine.
My tub, like yours, is round and tall, like an old fashioned hot tub. I love it! There's no corners to hide in, the shape creates a naturally intimate setting for guests soaking, and I think it just looks really cool too.
I'm glad you're really happy with your new tub. Happy soaking! :) -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Tue, November 6, 2007 - 5:53 AMThank you for the electrical lesson. I was having a little trouble understanding why a supposedly experienced electrician didn't know about the 4th wire. Probably because he didn't know about the two circuits, duh! I feel better now. The wire had to go through a buried conduit about 10 feet to a new little box so the tub could be directly wired -- no plug. The box will eventually be hidden by the deck I plan to build -- but not until next summer probably. I don't like to start big projects like that during the school year because *something* always comes up and then there's a big ugly pile of 'parts' cluttering up the nice back yard.
I agree on the look of the round tub -- just more traditional. I did get a gray cedar finish instead of the more common redwood.
Hapy Soaking to you to :-) -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Tue, November 6, 2007 - 1:13 PMApparently, wiring a hot tub is different from most residential and commercial electrical. The friend who wired mine has been an electrician for 20 years (mostly commercial, new construction) and he ended up wiring the little box near the tub incorrectly for a hot tub, but correctly for other applications. After some back and forth with the dealer, I downloaded the wiring diagram from the web and rearranged a couple of the wires and presto! I guess that's why the dealer recommended getting someone who was familiar with hot tubs... ;-)
Happy soaking!
Chris -
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Re: newbie, looking for a guru
Tue, November 6, 2007 - 5:24 PMChris, I think you're on to something, but it's not just with hot tubs....
The term electrician is thought by many who are not in the industry to mean someone who specializes in dealing with electricity, but in the trade it really means nothing more than a guy who pulls wire.
There are fantastic electricians who understand motor controls, can install and/or trouble shoot various electrical systems/appliances, and there are also guys out there who can just pull wire through pipe and strap it down so the inspector will sign off on it. They're all called electricians (or at least that's what the little card they get from the state of California says anyway).
I'm actually going about things backwards.... I learned electrical installation/troubleshooting working as an AC/Refrigeration mechanic (which I still do part time) and now I'm working as a commercial construction electrician trying to learn the bigger picture the underground, overhead, main feeds and subfeeds, and power distribution. It's all really fascinating to me.
I've been thinking about getting my contractors license and advertizing myself as a guy who can install hottubs, diswashers, fix reffrigerators, install/mainain/repair air conditioners and heaters etc as side work becauase working as an electrician pays alot less than what I'm used to have I've been having a real hard time paying the bills, lol.
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